In a wide-ranging interview with Democrat-turned-independent presidential candidate Robert F. Kennedy Jr., Daily Wire Editor Emeritus Ben Shapiro challenged Kennedy on how he squares his stance on abortion with the Catholic faith he grew up in.

During their hour-and-a-half discussion, Shapiro challenged Kennedy’s position on abortion in particular. Shapiro explained that abortion opponents are concerned about the child’s bodily autonomy as well as the mother’s, and pointed out that the Catholic Church opposes abortion. Like many in his family, Kennedy is a Catholic.

Kennedy said he believes every abortion is a “tragedy,” but that the issue is “more nuanced and complex.”

Shapiro responded that abortion is, “not just a tragedy. It’s a crime against the child because the child has an independent interest. What do you say to that?”

“I say that I understand that position, and I don’t agree with it,” Kennedy said, adding that he believes “the solution of having the state come in and dictate choices that a woman is making is not a good solution.”

“You don’t believe that the child has an independent right to life, for example, at any point during the pregnancy?” Shapiro asked.

Kennedy said he doesn’t think any woman obtains an abortion in the eighth month for a “frivolous reason” and that the abortions that do occur that late in pregnancy have an “extenuating circumstance.” He said he does not want to give government the power in those situations.

“You know, you and I will differ on that,” Kennedy said. “And I understand your position. I have tremendous respect for you for having that kind of absolute moral clarity on that position.”

Kennedy also said he does not support “federal policy” that pushes women toward abortion as their only solution. He emphasized that American society should do everything it can to make sure women have “other choices,” especially when it comes to pregnant women who lack the money to support a child.

“I don’t think that that should ever be a reason in this country for a woman not carrying her child to term,” Kennedy said.

The Sunday Special discussion, which can be viewed on DailyWire+, also touched on how people can find community in the modern technology-saturated world.

“The death of church, the death of community in the United States, that seems to be one of the giant creeping problems that everyone is ignoring, the fact that we do in fact need people to go to church,” Shapiro said. “What do you think is going to happen in terms of community building? How do we fill that gap?”

Kennedy said he tends to “viscerally agree” with Shapiro’s point, but he added that, “churches don’t necessarily bring people together. They also divide people.”

Kennedy started his presidential campaign as a Democrat in the primaries, but he changed his bid in October to run as an independent.

Polling from this month shows him at 8.5%, with President Joe Biden at 40.3% and former President Donald Trump at 41.9%. Those numbers put Kennedy on track to be the most successful independent presidential candidate since Ross Perot in the 1990s.