Comedian and actor Russell Brand and Daily Wire editor emeritus Ben Shapiro discussed their respective — and vastly different — parenting styles, cultural issues, and even marijuana during a loose, unscripted conversation over drinks in “The Search.”
Brand, a free-thinking liberal who’s against censorship and harsh lockdown mandates, said he’s against almost all “government intervention” when it comes to parenting, noting the recent trend of children being raised as their opposite sex. Shapiro argued that the government must have some role in protecting children, particularly from abuse.
“When it comes to something that’s super personal but also intersects with the culture,” said Brand, who has two daughters aged five and six. “I reckon that you and I would raise our kids different, you know?”
“I imagine,” answered Shapiro, who has four children — all under nine years old, including an unborn child. “Your kids aren’t going to Jewish day school, so yeah.”
“They’re not going there, and I don’t imagine that your children smoke cigars yet, for example,” Brand joked. “Mine are quite heavy smokers.”
Shapiro quipped, “My son, I don’t know — he’s turning seven soon.”
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Brand then referenced a monologue from John Oliver in which the host said a book about two male penguins raising a chick would be banned in public spaces in Florida. Brand said he found himself thinking that such a book would be “gentle” and appropriate for kids to learn about same-sex relationships. “I felt like, that’s probably precisely the type of book that would gently introduce the idea that same-sex relationships are acceptable and ordinary and not worthy of generating conflict … that’s like a perfectly inoffensive thing.”
Shapiro said it would be one thing for parents to use the books to teach children, but said they should not be in a school library.
“[Gov. Ron] DeSantis’ point, to take Florida for example, is that [such material] shouldn’t be in public school libraries, not because parents should not be allowed to teach their kids, but because teachers should not be allowed to teach my kids, which is a different thing … It’s my responsibility to teach my kid. It’s not the job of a teachers union employee to teach my kid what I think are fundamental human values.”
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“I guess that is a question that I’m asking you, Ben,” he continued. “Is your ultimate position that, if you’re allowed to raise your children how you want to, other people should be allowed to raise their children how they want to?”
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“I would say, within limits,” Shapiro responded. “For example, [we] disagree with child abuse, nobody wants their kids to be beaten, presumably.”
“How you define what you think is a healthy way to raise a child is obviously pretty important, because kids can’t consent to being in that relationship with their parents,” Shapiro continued. “When it comes to, you know, some of these very dicey issues about fundamental truths, as we consider them — for example, male being male, female being female. The question is, to what sort of treatment should be available to a child, based on parental diagnosis or based on going to one particular type of therapist versus another type of therapist.”
“I would say, autonomy, but within limits,” Shapiro continued. “So, the question is always, that’s where this sort of controversy always lies: what exactly are the limits?”
Brand stood firm that he believes the government should not interfere with how parents raise their children.
“Where’s the point of intervention?” Brand asked. “Where are you happy for the state or some of other set of values to be asserted? Because for me, it’s almost at no point do I want to be told — I raise my children how I’m going to raise my children, and I recognize that there will probably be things that people won’t agree with. And I feel quite, almost angry, like, I’m raising them. I don’t trust you. I don’t trust your authority.”
Shapiro agreed that parents should have wide autonomy in how they raise their children, but said kids must be guarded from abuse and provided a chance to learn life skills.
“I think as a general rule — as a general overarching rule of the universe — sure, because I think parents are the ones who are closest to their kids,” Shapiro answered. “I think that the rubber meets the road when it comes to what we perceive as child health or child wellness, raising kids in what we would perceive as a healthy way or a way that is conducive to their future happiness. It gets very dicey, obviously very quickly, and so I think the easiest position to take is the libertarian one, but I’m not a libertarian, because, again, I think there’s a lot of situations where active harm can be done to children by a parent.”
“So, there are limits, and I think that I would draw those limits probably more closely than you would.”
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Brand and Shapiro discussed their own parenting styles.
“I’m protecting my kids from certain material because I think that kids are incredibly malleable, and I think that environmental influences actually do matter to my kids,” Shapiro outlined. “I’ve yet to find an area of human life in which environmental impact does not matter to my kids. And so this sort of idea that your kid is going to be who they’re going to be no matter what, and they’re going to flourish into whatever they’re going to flourish into, and your job is to stand back and let them go, I think that that’s irresponsible, and virtually every parent would say the same. They would just draw the lines differently than I would.”
Closing the discussion, the pair agreed there may have to be a “truce” at some point regarding these cultural issues to avoid the destruction of the nation, though Shapiro emphasized his moral opposition.
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Nearing the end of the pair’s conversation, in a rather memorable moment, Brand, who’s more than 20 years sober, told Shapiro he can “smell weed, right now.”
“Give me the Talmud, because if it’s not in there — ” Brand joked.
“I’m not gonna be the one who says that weed is Kosher, but it’s an organic good,” Shapiro responded with a laugh.
“I’m 20 years clean, I didn’t think this was how I was gonna fall off the wagon,” Brand said. “I’ve been with [Joe] Rogan, [Bill] Maher — it’s Shapiro who takes me down!”
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