In this DW+ exclusive Sessions interview, Dr. Jordan Peterson and Alex O’Connor discuss the fallen world, the conceptualization of heaven as a place without suffering, and how that weighs against the need for suffering in order to derive meaning.

Alex O'Connor is a philosophy-oriented YouTuber, podcaster, and public speaker with over 750,000 subscribers on YouTube. He graduated in 2021 from St. John's College, Oxford University, with a BA in philosophy and theology. In 2023 he launched the “Within Reason” podcast, which has featured guests including Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Slavoj Žižek, Neil deGrasse Tyson, and Rory Stewart, amongst others. He has debated issues of religion, ethics, and politics with figures including Ben Shapiro, Michael Knowles, Douglas Murray, and Piers Morgan.

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