The following is a transcript excerpt from Dr. Jordan Peterson’s conversation with Mosab Hassan Yousef, a Palestinian ex-militant who defected to Israel in 1997 where he worked as an undercover agent for the Shin Bet until he moved to the United States in 2007. Yousef was considered the Shin Bet’s most reliable source in the Hamas leadership, earning himself the nickname “The Green Prince.” The intelligence he supplied to Israel led to the exposure of many Hamas cells, as well as the prevention of dozens of suicide bombings and assassination attempts on Jews. Yousef’s father is Sheikh Hassan Yousef, a co-founder of Hamas. (Wording has been kept as close as was spoken in the interview.)
Start time: 50:26
Mosab Hassan Yousef: I personally am fighting for my very existence. I’m not an expert on the topic. They want me to cease to exist. Hence, my relationship and my understanding of Israel because Israel didn’t do anything wrong to the Arabs and to the Jews — except, you know, just being who they are. And they want them to cease to exist. This is how I feel, why I feel with Israel. There’s no difference. We are in the same situation, where I didn’t commit a crime against my people. I didn’t commit a crime against anyone.
Even later on, when I collaborated with Israel in the intelligence service, my main goal was to just stop the madness, stop suicide bombers from targeting civilians indiscriminately. This was my goal. This was my moral compass. I didn’t do it because of a national motivation. But I still became a traitor. I say, “Why you label me as a traitor? Why you condemn me to death?” I say, “I did not only save Jewish life, I saved also Palestinian lives. I saved my father’s life and other Hamas leaders’ lives.”
But even not for ten years, I don’t have blood on my hands. I did not take part of killing any human being throughout ten years of war and chaos and bloodshed, working around the clock to save people from their madness, trying to just juggle with the whole situation. I was very young, and I almost got killed so many times in the process — sitting in a room full of explosives with potential suicide bombers, 19-years-old, discussing who’s going to die first. That kind of situation. And I am trying, how can I stop this kid from killing so many other people?
This is not about treason. It’s about pro life. This is what we were doing. Yet a society that praise suicide bombing attacks, praise death, because blinded with hatred towards the Jewish people — that, by the way, they don’t know nothing about the Jewish history. They don’t know nothing about the Jewish suffering. They are not willing to study about the Holocaust. Instead, they’re teaching people the wrong and the false narrative. And this is how they guarantee to stay in this victimhood for eternity.
So basically, it’s so complicated, you know, in my matrix that I learned a lot about myself, and I fought the good fight. But right now, I reached the point that I don’t need to explain to anybody anything. There is a volcano inside me is about to erupt, and I don’t care what people are going to say, whether they’re going to say mad, crazy, out of control, they can say whatever they want. We have to eradicate Hamas. We have to finish Islamists. There is no room for savages in our civilization, and anyone who pose a threat against innocent civilians don’t have equal rights. It’s as simple as that.
And all of the voices coming from the United States that say, “Hey, ‘Palestinians,’ give the Palestinians equal rights.” I say, “No. First, I want to see equal responsibility. Show me equal responsibility. Then, we can discuss equal rights.” But you don’t compare savages to decent civilians or to decent civilized people who know the responsibility towards themselves and towards their neighbor. And compare, say, “Hey, Israel is democracy. Why you treat the Palestinians in such manner?” Well, there is no such a thing as Palestine to begin with, and the entire social structure need to be studied before we decide what Palestine is — because it’s not a nation. Just political, gangs, fighting against each other, finding Israel as a common enemy. And when Israel is not there, they will kill each other. I promise you.
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Jordan B. Peterson: So what happens to you at 13? Walk me through your life from 13 onward, to the point where you start working with the Israelis. Just walk me through that whole biography.
Mosab Hassan Yousef: So, that was the first person in Intifada. But it looks like I developed so many disorders because of the traumas of childhood. And instead, a society that can understand a child and what’s going on, what they did, they beat me up. Everybody, from the Hamas leaders to my parents to the teachers at school to the principal to the other kids in the streets, everywhere I went. At some point, I got beaten up by a mob. In fact, in my life, I got beaten up by a mob multiple times to the point where I went unconscious.
Jordan B. Peterson: And why were you a target of that sort of violence?
Mosab Hassan Yousef: I was just troublemaker, and I am still a troublemaker. It’s one of my best qualities. So basically, they wanted me to behave accordingly, according to the religious laws and the cultural laws. But I didn’t know why I was behaving that way. I just wanted to rebel. There was lots of anger inside me, and there is still lots of anger.
Jordan B. Peterson: So what were you doing that was causing trouble?
Mosab Hassan Yousef: I broke the rules; at the mosque, I played. I just was very playful kid. And they wanted me to just not do anything. If I ran in the mosque — once, the imam of the mosque lift me up above his head and throw me flat on my back, where I lost my breath. And in other occasion, I was whipped by a Hamas leader with the electric cable to the point that I lost consciousness.
Jordan B. Peterson: How old were you?
Mosab Hassan Yousef: Between 10 and 18-years-old, this is like where the brutality of the society took place. So if I was only a rape victim when I was very young, I would say, ok, you know, that was one event, but come on. Everybody was conspiring against me, and I still wonder why so many forces wanted me dead. And they still don’t have compassion to just look and say, it’s like, “Well, this guy went through a lot. Like, maybe, you know, whatever he’s saying, he has the right at least to express it.” But they want to strip me even the right to talk about it.
So, it’s brutal culture. You know, when some say what happened October 7 was barbaric, it’s not only Hamas. There is a majority in the Gazan society that is complicit in this crime. In fact, for those who watched the footage of the October 7 crimes, it was not only Hamas that committed the crime. Most of the crimes, especially raping and kidnaping, were committed by Gazan civilians. And I know now, this is considered, or somebody can discredit me because I’m generalizing, but I say the vast majority of that society don’t have mercy when it comes to children, and no woman can walk freely and feel safe at midnight anywhere in the Palestinian territories. This is why a father is willing to kill his daughter if she would leave the house without a companion. Because if she leaves the house without companion, there is a big chance that she is going to be raped on the streets. And why are you taking such a risk? They would beat them up if they leave the house alone.
So, it’s a troubled society. It’s a death culture. And I don’t mean to label them as savages, and I don’t want to say this because it’s so hard. It’s my biological family, this is where I came from. And I love the people. I want the people to integrate, but they want me dead still. And as long as they are not able to make peace with their own child, I don’t know how they can make peace with other nations, with other people, with others.
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Dr. Jordan B. Peterson is a clinical psychologist and professor emeritus at the University of Toronto. From 1993 to 1998 he served as assistant and then associate professor of psychology at Harvard. He is the international bestselling author of Maps of Meaning, 12 Rules For Life, and Beyond Order.
You can now listen to or watch his popular lectures on DailyWire+.